Here's a conversation I had with some friends on Facebook about the programme.
Iain McGill Yes think you're spot on, Joe. It's as if Murdoch is already running the BBC.....they're pulling punches and spinning stories all over the place. Well and truly neutered Like · Reply · 11 hrs
Joe Gill God forbid that the BBC would ever actually do a proper investigation of the allegations in the Westminster scandal - and discover that they are not entirely bogus. Perhaps they've already done it and I missed it. Like · Reply · 9 hrs
Ollie Goodall Steve Hewlett on the Media Show just now: "Panorama is not the BBC." Can we stop these sweeping abstract arguments please? Panorama, like much of TV is made by independent production houses. And are shown often, for commercial reasons. I don't necessarily agree with some of it's output but I'll defend the BBC, if not the public broadcasting model, to the hilt. ON the BBC not OF the BBC. Like · Reply · 7 hrs · Edited
Ann Czernik At the risk of being shot down, I thought the Panorama programme was right to ask the questions that they did. The programme did'nt suggest and in fact was careful to state that these people had been abused. The question was how journalists had obtained statements, and the interview with Mark from the Grafton Close children's home was really well handled. I've interviewed widely around the Westminster story. I've never been able to stand it up and believe me I've tried. What I found was exactly the same as Panorama. I know of one victim who was plastered all over SKY as abused in Dolphin Square and he is absolutely categoric that it did'nt happen. He like many other boys from the care system was part of a network where staff arranged for boys to be sold for sex. But not at Dolphin Square. Another boy told me of his involvement in a similar ring but he was billed as a victim of Edward Heath.
The abuse these boys suffered is real, and painful but the way that their experience has been manipulated and abused within the media is really wrong. It's not helped focus attention on the biggest child sex ring in history within the North Wales children's homes, nor has it had any impact on raising support for victims who struggle on a daily basis to come to terms with their abuse. Children were abused by MP's. There are over 650 of them so statistically some will be paedophiles, Does that constitute a conspiracy, no it does'nt. Was there a cover up - ask MI5 and the security agencies.
But what is truly tragic about this is that the many, many victims who were abused by lesser mortals are excluded from the investigation. Media is only interested in child abuse as either abuse porn or if there is a celebrity involved. There is no real interest in child abuse or child sex exploitation unless the victims are pupils at privileged institutions or the perpetrators are amongst the rich and powerful. That is hypocrisy and meanwhile a sociological disaster is unfolding because as an industry CSE has taken root in communities. I'm backing the Panorama programme because it asked difficult questions that needed to be asked. We need a justice system which operates fairly. Unfortunately that means that victims of abuse, are witnesses to their own assault, often the only witnesses. What if those accounts do not stand up to the rigours of the justice system? Is it OK to relax those requirements to obtain convictions and what do we do about potential miscarriages of justice. Child abuse is complex, and difficult and challenges black and white thinking. Of course we should believe survivors, but we also need to uphold the justice system. It's the only thing that stands between us and the abuse of human rights that would occur if we compromise that system. It's not perfect but it's the best that there is.
In the UK, we are all innocent until proven guilty. Child abuse - as a crime - has to have the same standards. It doesnt mean that someone was not abused but it does mean that trial by media has to stop. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial and the current coverage means that people like Proctor are unlikely to get that. The problem with that is that they can quite rightly claim that as a defence. I was at a conference on CSE recently where there were discussions about the problems of conviction. There are people out there quietly doing really good work to try to grapple withh the problems of evidence, and interrogation and vulnerable witnesses but no-one wants to talk about that. It's easier to characterise this monstrous crime as the actions of people who are beyond human but the reality is that children are abused mainly by people that they know, and you sit down to dinner with. Panorama - I feel - simply engaged with some of the issues that surround the allegations of the Westminster paedophile ring and there are many. I think they should be allowed as journalists to do that. Unlike · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs
Joe Gill Thank you Ann for sharing that - I have not seen the show so I bow to what you are saying - and perhaps I posted too hastily without seeing the programme. I agree that people should not be put on trial by media. And I did wonder how it was that none of these cases came to trial after years of witnesses being interviewed. In which case does that mean Exaro is not being fair in its coverage of the story? Like · Reply · 6 hrs
Joe Gill Exaro put up a good defence of their reports on Newsnight tonight, Watching Panorama now Like · Reply · 52 mins
Joe Gill The tone of the programme is disbelieving of the witnesses, suggesting the accounts of abuse are mostly made up. It casts doubt over Exaro investigation methods and makes a big attack on Tom Watson's parliamentary calls for action on paedophilia, while also making Leon Brittan out as an innocent victim of a witchhunt. The questions maybe valid, but its a massively pro-establishment programme. Unsurprising really - but what about all the other centres of paedophilia, aside from Dolphin Square and Elm Guest House? Perhaps we can now have a programme about the well-known coverups of the 70s to 1990s of senior paedophiles. I think we'll be waiting a while for that one, or perhaps they never happened either... Like · Reply · 2 mins
added to the thread :
ReplyDeleteOllie Goodall It is as Ann said, like Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle (observation versus objectivity) ; the bigger the fish, the more likely the bigger the inquiry and some kind of result or 'positive outcome' is required. And justice is stretched. Or, in the smaller (or individual) cases justice is absent as there is no mechanism for serious enquiry. It's as if the media need to be involved so the CPS or whoever need to get their act together. Again, possible distortion. As Ann said most instances of abuse are familial or victims know their perps, and much more difficult to prove, especially as we are talking about children and sometimes only decades later, the truth comes out. I too, will watch the programme and hopefully I can try and edit out the sensational aspects and see if any truth remains...